Comments on: Camels, Gnats, and Shallow Graves

By: Athena

Athena — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:38:35 +0000

Heather, Kathryn, you’re right, of course. What really makes me feel literally unhinged when I hear of such things is the suppression of even basic instincts. What kind of man stuffs his own daughter, alive and struggling, into a hole and then paves it over? And her mother, her sisters stood by mute and helpless! What does that say about what conditions they live under?

I have said it before many times, but it bears repeating: humans will limp along but not thrive until they treat women as fully human.

As for this country and its prospects, I had an encounter with another Dr. B. (what’s with the Bees?). You will hear about it as soon as I’m done with reviewing some grants — there’s the usual backlog after I have to file one myself.

By: r0ck3tsci3ntist

r0ck3tsci3ntist — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:40:10 +0000

These crimes against humanity and females are real and horrifying, engendering a feeling of impotent rage because they stem from a needless cultural bias. A culture which promotes female ownership in order to control mate selection as moral tenet is simply paving the road for these sorts of atrocities.

I applaud the women of Iran and pray they achieve their freedom. Sadly, this is what happens when there is no separation of church and state. As many problems as this country (US) has, that’s one of the best things about it. And we must defend it or we will end up with our own form of sharia.

By: intrigued_scribe

intrigued_scribe — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:58:36 +0000

Thank you for sharing this outstanding essay, Athena. I agree; if only there weren’t a need for essays like this. And indeed, brutally maintaining absolute power is a common trait in Fundamentalist sects, alongside merciless oppression of women and even the smallest hints of opposition.

By: Athena

Athena — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:07:39 +0000

Thank you, Marie, but I wish I didn’t have to write such essays. Fundamentalist sects of all religions treat women like that — Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Confucianism, Buddhism. Those in power always make gods in their image.

By: Marie

Marie — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:25:37 +0000

As always, Athena, another excellent essay. This is one in which I totally agree with your strong stance for women and women’s rights. The horrific description of Medine Memi’s death is not just indicative of the Middle East. Last year alone in the UK there were over 200 “honor” killings and a smattering in the US. After I left the theater upon viewing “The Stoning of Soraya M”, the sick realization that this practice is condoned in all levels of their society made my stomach roil in objection.

Whether the marriage is polygamous or monogamous, the objections of the woman child are inconsequential in comparison to the status of this male dominated society and its brutal justification of the law.

By: Athena

Athena — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:36:45 +0000

Calvin, indeed. The disconnect is mind-boggling, no matter how you view it: rationally, emotionally, logically, morally.

By: Caliban

Caliban — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:30:56 +0000

“Straining at gnats” is truly a correct assessment. In cases like this, polygamy is a tool of oppression and control. *shakes head*

By: Athena

Athena — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:37:37 +0000

I wonder, too, Peggy. If individual rights trump all else, we need to ask whose individual rights take priority when we run into irreconcilable incompatibilities. The western countries are grappling with this, as immigrant communities remain insular and cling to their natal customs, instead of becoming fully participating citizens. Multiculturalism is all well and good — until they start forcibly preventing their girls from going to school.

Also, how much can a terrified nine-year old “consent” to a marriage or to an irreversible mutilation? It’s a telling point that the less enlightened the culture, the lower its age of consent is for girls (not so for boys — their age of consent is invariably in the late teen years or even later). It’s equally telling that perhaps the strongest indicator for a society’s well-being is the social, political and economic status of its women.

By: Peggy

Peggy — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:18:24 +0000

Living my well-educated middle-class life, it’s so easy to forget that such injustices happen here in the US too. It’s usually not with such terrible violence or the official sanction (or willful ignorance) of the authorities of the case of Medine Memi, so we can claim it’s not so bad here. But still, “not so bad” isn’t the same as “not happening at all”. Thank you and Ophelia both for the reminders of how good I’ve got it.

I wonder if Dr. B feels that the underage girls forced into polygamous marriages in Mormon fundamentalist communities don’t need legal protections either.

By: Athena

Athena — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:58:51 +0000

I don’t know if Mr. B. is an outright jackass, ZarPaulus, but he has been guilty of such lofty armchairism before; particularly so in connection with “Other” issues (women, non-whites, non-middle class…).

Ophelia, I’m glad your words made a difference. Mine only led to huffing and puffing and accusations of ad hominem. Granted, I was not diplomatic — but as I said above to ZarPaulus, this is a repeating pattern, not a one-time event. Which tends to erode my patience and temper.