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	<title>Comments on: Why We May Never Get to Alpha Centauri</title>
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	<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244</link>
	<description>New Words, New Worlds</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 19:55:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: James Davis Nicoll</title>
		<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244&#038;cpage=1#comment-63767</link>
		<dc:creator>James Davis Nicoll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244#comment-63767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, for suggestive results and cloud life, both Neptune and Uranus have excesses of methane in their atmospheres; as far as I know Jupiter and Saturn do not. Methane has a short life span under the conditions of those worlds so something is supplying new methane. Probably it&#039;s nothing biological but still, worth a look.

(also, Titan)

My issue with Mars or an issue with Mars is when I look at Martian regolith chemistry, I don&#039;t see stuff people would benefit from extended exposure to, even in trace amounts. Ditto for the Moon; if lunar regolith shreds space suits, what does it do to lungs?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, for suggestive results and cloud life, both Neptune and Uranus have excesses of methane in their atmospheres; as far as I know Jupiter and Saturn do not. Methane has a short life span under the conditions of those worlds so something is supplying new methane. Probably it&#8217;s nothing biological but still, worth a look.</p>
<p>(also, Titan)</p>
<p>My issue with Mars or an issue with Mars is when I look at Martian regolith chemistry, I don&#8217;t see stuff people would benefit from extended exposure to, even in trace amounts. Ditto for the Moon; if lunar regolith shreds space suits, what does it do to lungs?</p>
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		<title>By: Athena</title>
		<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244&#038;cpage=1#comment-63765</link>
		<dc:creator>Athena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244#comment-63765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mars colonization stories have more of the sciency pseudo-authenticity so beloved of &quot;hard&quot; SF practitioners.  On the side of science, life in Venusian clouds (or Jovian ones, at that) is a possibility.  However, if such life has evolved from the precursors that have now totally vanished on Earth, and if they&#039;re different enough (example: quartz antecedents) they may not register as common ancestors.  Not that it matters; it will be fascinating either way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mars colonization stories have more of the sciency pseudo-authenticity so beloved of &#8220;hard&#8221; SF practitioners.  On the side of science, life in Venusian clouds (or Jovian ones, at that) is a possibility.  However, if such life has evolved from the precursors that have now totally vanished on Earth, and if they&#8217;re different enough (example: quartz antecedents) they may not register as common ancestors.  Not that it matters; it will be fascinating either way.</p>
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		<title>By: James Davis Nicoll</title>
		<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244&#038;cpage=1#comment-63764</link>
		<dc:creator>James Davis Nicoll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244#comment-63764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think she picked Venus *because* it was so hard. 

As far as extant life goes, it&#039;s at least worth a look to see what&#039;s going on in the clouds at the 50km. Life or not life, either is an interesting answer. You&#039;d think someone would have done this by now, given how many probes have gone to Venus. 

(I expect if there is life on Mars and/or Venus, it&#039;ll turn out  that thanks to interplanetary transfer of material all three sets of life (Earth, Mars and Venus) share common ancestors)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think she picked Venus *because* it was so hard. </p>
<p>As far as extant life goes, it&#8217;s at least worth a look to see what&#8217;s going on in the clouds at the 50km. Life or not life, either is an interesting answer. You&#8217;d think someone would have done this by now, given how many probes have gone to Venus. </p>
<p>(I expect if there is life on Mars and/or Venus, it&#8217;ll turn out  that thanks to interplanetary transfer of material all three sets of life (Earth, Mars and Venus) share common ancestors)</p>
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		<title>By: Athena</title>
		<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244&#038;cpage=1#comment-63763</link>
		<dc:creator>Athena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244#comment-63763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think one reason Sargent&#039;s series may have fallen into obscurity (besides the obvious) is that Venus is now known to be so hostile that it cannot be terraformed by &quot;mild&quot; means.  Neither does it have the siren call of possible past or even extant life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one reason Sargent&#8217;s series may have fallen into obscurity (besides the obvious) is that Venus is now known to be so hostile that it cannot be terraformed by &#8220;mild&#8221; means.  Neither does it have the siren call of possible past or even extant life.</p>
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		<title>By: James Davis Nicoll</title>
		<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244&#038;cpage=1#comment-63762</link>
		<dc:creator>James Davis Nicoll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244#comment-63762</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; One is using space opera terraforming paradigms for geoengineering. (“Stan Robinson did it in the Mars trilogy, why not us?”) &lt;/i&gt;

Pamela Sargent did it before KSR, although her Venus series seems to have fallen into obscurity. Like KSR she had to introduce narrative-friendly short-cuts, from compressing the time scale involved to invoking handwavium that could spin the planet up without side issues of &quot;where&#039;s the energy for this coming from&quot; and &quot;why haven&#039;t the inefficiencies inherent in most processes led to the planet getting melted while being spun up.&quot; 

I don&#039;t off-hand know of an SF story that accepts the time scales implied by the work of people like Fogg (although there are one or two where the other problem, the unlikelihood that we will get it right the first time, is embraced): a century or more to create an anoxic Precambrian, and millennia more before you can walk around without a space suit. Taking on a project that will span millennia is epic and yet underexploited in SF to my knowledge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> One is using space opera terraforming paradigms for geoengineering. (“Stan Robinson did it in the Mars trilogy, why not us?”) </i></p>
<p>Pamela Sargent did it before KSR, although her Venus series seems to have fallen into obscurity. Like KSR she had to introduce narrative-friendly short-cuts, from compressing the time scale involved to invoking handwavium that could spin the planet up without side issues of &#8220;where&#8217;s the energy for this coming from&#8221; and &#8220;why haven&#8217;t the inefficiencies inherent in most processes led to the planet getting melted while being spun up.&#8221; </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t off-hand know of an SF story that accepts the time scales implied by the work of people like Fogg (although there are one or two where the other problem, the unlikelihood that we will get it right the first time, is embraced): a century or more to create an anoxic Precambrian, and millennia more before you can walk around without a space suit. Taking on a project that will span millennia is epic and yet underexploited in SF to my knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: Walden2</title>
		<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244&#038;cpage=1#comment-63268</link>
		<dc:creator>Walden2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244#comment-63268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I got a kick out of the fact that the only news service to survive 500 years into the future of Idiocracy was of course Fox News.  Their entertainment television programs (One title: &quot;Ow! My Balls!&quot;) have certainly become a reality much sooner than predicted.

I was being somewhat facetious about aliens generously giving us FTL (either that or we shoot down their ship and take the propulsion unit - don&#039;t tell me the military wouldn&#039;t do that in a second if they could, that&#039;s why they investigated UFOs for so long).  I would be more than a little suspicious of any aliens who show up and declare they want to &quot;help&quot; us.  Or Carl Sagan&#039;s idea that advanced altruistic ETI are beaming all their knowledge across the galaxy in order to enlighten and uplift the lesser species.  You don&#039;t give guns and bombs to your potential enemies, or possibly turn them into such with such a method.  Unless these ETI are really powerful and really confident.  Or they are dying and they want their culture to be preserved in some fashion ala The Listeners by Gunn.

In any event I don&#039;t see that deliberately happening, ever.  We will have to sink or swim on our own, which is a good thing overall.  Besides, we will learn a lot of new and unexpected bonuses along the way that we might never find out if such things as FTL were just handed to us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got a kick out of the fact that the only news service to survive 500 years into the future of Idiocracy was of course Fox News.  Their entertainment television programs (One title: &#8220;Ow! My Balls!&#8221;) have certainly become a reality much sooner than predicted.</p>
<p>I was being somewhat facetious about aliens generously giving us FTL (either that or we shoot down their ship and take the propulsion unit &#8211; don&#8217;t tell me the military wouldn&#8217;t do that in a second if they could, that&#8217;s why they investigated UFOs for so long).  I would be more than a little suspicious of any aliens who show up and declare they want to &#8220;help&#8221; us.  Or Carl Sagan&#8217;s idea that advanced altruistic ETI are beaming all their knowledge across the galaxy in order to enlighten and uplift the lesser species.  You don&#8217;t give guns and bombs to your potential enemies, or possibly turn them into such with such a method.  Unless these ETI are really powerful and really confident.  Or they are dying and they want their culture to be preserved in some fashion ala The Listeners by Gunn.</p>
<p>In any event I don&#8217;t see that deliberately happening, ever.  We will have to sink or swim on our own, which is a good thing overall.  Besides, we will learn a lot of new and unexpected bonuses along the way that we might never find out if such things as FTL were just handed to us.</p>
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		<title>By: Athena</title>
		<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244&#038;cpage=1#comment-63265</link>
		<dc:creator>Athena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244#comment-63265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Flying on Earth versus traveling between stars is a very different proposition if you want to have crewed journeys.  The Wright brothers analogy is trotted out like a reflex in such discussions, but it&#039;s invalid.  They were neither the only nor the first ones to fly successfully -- and there was the obvious precedent of bats, birds, etc. that suggested the enterprise was inherently feasible.

You know my views on Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica, so I won&#039;t elaborate further.  I did see Idiocracy.  I still laugh at the memory of the background scene of the car driving off a half-finished bridge, to fall on top of other cars piled up at the base.

I wouldn&#039;t hold my breath for FTL-bearing ETI.  We have to figure this one out for ourselves, or dwindle back to whence we sprang from.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flying on Earth versus traveling between stars is a very different proposition if you want to have crewed journeys.  The Wright brothers analogy is trotted out like a reflex in such discussions, but it&#8217;s invalid.  They were neither the only nor the first ones to fly successfully &#8212; and there was the obvious precedent of bats, birds, etc. that suggested the enterprise was inherently feasible.</p>
<p>You know my views on Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica, so I won&#8217;t elaborate further.  I did see Idiocracy.  I still laugh at the memory of the background scene of the car driving off a half-finished bridge, to fall on top of other cars piled up at the base.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t hold my breath for FTL-bearing ETI.  We have to figure this one out for ourselves, or dwindle back to whence we sprang from.</p>
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		<title>By: Walden2</title>
		<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244&#038;cpage=1#comment-63264</link>
		<dc:creator>Walden2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244#comment-63264</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As for hard science fiction&#039;s hard times, I blame the Star Wars franchise for diluting the genre and the reimaged Battlestar Galactica for barely being SF.

And now we learn that Disney has bought LucasFilms for $4.05 billion and will release Star Wars VII in 2015.  They may improve on the franchise or not, but we will now be stuck with it for ages to come.

Star Wars has even taken away Star Trek&#039;s once prominent position.  I know a number of people, including my two sons, who care for SW far more than ST because that is what they grew up with.  I was deeply unimpressed with the reimaged ST film released in 2009 and wonder if the elements that made the original ST work along with the era it appeared in make it nearly impossible for any such series to have the influence nowadays.

Have you seen the film Idiocracy?  I keep thinking it has the most accurate picture of our future of any SF story to date.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for hard science fiction&#8217;s hard times, I blame the Star Wars franchise for diluting the genre and the reimaged Battlestar Galactica for barely being SF.</p>
<p>And now we learn that Disney has bought LucasFilms for $4.05 billion and will release Star Wars VII in 2015.  They may improve on the franchise or not, but we will now be stuck with it for ages to come.</p>
<p>Star Wars has even taken away Star Trek&#8217;s once prominent position.  I know a number of people, including my two sons, who care for SW far more than ST because that is what they grew up with.  I was deeply unimpressed with the reimaged ST film released in 2009 and wonder if the elements that made the original ST work along with the era it appeared in make it nearly impossible for any such series to have the influence nowadays.</p>
<p>Have you seen the film Idiocracy?  I keep thinking it has the most accurate picture of our future of any SF story to date.</p>
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		<title>By: Walden2</title>
		<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244&#038;cpage=1#comment-63263</link>
		<dc:creator>Walden2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244#comment-63263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It has been recently pointed out by Adam Crowl that the Orion method of interstellar travel won’t get us to Alpha Centauri for several thousand years at best.  The Freeman Dyson version that supposedly could have gotten a manned crew to our nearest interstellar neighbors in just 125 years was overly optimistic.  Orion could still work for Sol system travel, at least, as it was originally intended.

If Orion, which we could build now if need be, is not much faster than many other methods considered for reaching the stars, I worry about the whole enterprise (pun intended).  Fusion even as a means of powering our society is still elusive.  Beamed propulsion suffers from finding some organization that would be able to build a giant laser in space and then having most of humanity fret that it could be turned into a weapon.  

Antimatter is produced in too small amounts and is ridiculously expensive.  The other methods are practically fantasy:  So long as the promoters of warp drive keep saying the main ingredient required is “exotic matter”, they might as well be talking about dilithium crystals for such a vessel.

Tell me I am wrong, tell me I am just being too pessimistic and akin to the people who said the Wright Brother were wasting their time.  However, the more I look at the interstellar propulsion situation in the light of reality, the more I think we either better learn to be very patient or hope some ETI comes along and reveals the secrets of FTL travel.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has been recently pointed out by Adam Crowl that the Orion method of interstellar travel won’t get us to Alpha Centauri for several thousand years at best.  The Freeman Dyson version that supposedly could have gotten a manned crew to our nearest interstellar neighbors in just 125 years was overly optimistic.  Orion could still work for Sol system travel, at least, as it was originally intended.</p>
<p>If Orion, which we could build now if need be, is not much faster than many other methods considered for reaching the stars, I worry about the whole enterprise (pun intended).  Fusion even as a means of powering our society is still elusive.  Beamed propulsion suffers from finding some organization that would be able to build a giant laser in space and then having most of humanity fret that it could be turned into a weapon.  </p>
<p>Antimatter is produced in too small amounts and is ridiculously expensive.  The other methods are practically fantasy:  So long as the promoters of warp drive keep saying the main ingredient required is “exotic matter”, they might as well be talking about dilithium crystals for such a vessel.</p>
<p>Tell me I am wrong, tell me I am just being too pessimistic and akin to the people who said the Wright Brother were wasting their time.  However, the more I look at the interstellar propulsion situation in the light of reality, the more I think we either better learn to be very patient or hope some ETI comes along and reveals the secrets of FTL travel.</p>
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		<title>By: Geek Media Round-Up: October 30, 2012 &#8211; Grasping for the Wind</title>
		<link>http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244&#038;cpage=1#comment-63260</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek Media Round-Up: October 30, 2012 &#8211; Grasping for the Wind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starshipnivan.com/blog/?p=7244#comment-63260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Why We May Never Get to Alpha Centauri [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why We May Never Get to Alpha Centauri [...]</p>
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